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Voting for trump in 2024 and push the desire to actually win. so how those candidates do it, that's going to be an interesting thing to watch. and maybe it is the case that the way to thread that needle is going to be to say i'll pardon him, and that is the way that we can win and move forward. >> i would disagree on the pardon question. >> in the middle of court dates, this is -- we're going have to leave it there. we're out of time. but we will get back to you because there are big questions whether or not that is going to be something realistic. these court dates coming up for the former pr...

Members involved in that meeting and a handful of other members that weren't at the december 21st meeting. as the preemptive pardons. mr. gaetz was personally pushing for a pardon and he was doing so since early december. i'm not sure why. mr. gaetz had reached out to me to ask if he could have a meeting with mr. meadows about receiving a presidential pardon. >> and again, jake, she had contemporaneous notes, four of the six on just the pardon question have said it's not true. the committee has new documents and believes it is time for cassidy hutchinson to be a public witness, to walk through...

I'll agree with what was just said. it is a competitive news cycle and to do it in the midst of this. the other name i would add was pat cipollone and they've been trying to pursue pat cipollone, which was left hanging in the last hearings, where was he, what is he doing and all of that. the other unanswered question was exactly, this pardon question, which they released the list of names then denied it. and it maybe something as a follow up to that where there's more concrete evidence of that. but when we're in a news cycle in the midst of roe heading into a fourth of july weekend doing this ...

Runs is unrelated to matters at hand. it is not accurate because the investigation is still ongoing t. is very different from what we heard from judge ellis. what does it tell you? >> i don't think it as much. roger stone will go before the judge in this gag order today. she has been very thoughtful about that. it appears that she asked for a lot of information, took a look at what went into the book. she will make a judgment. i would be worried about the what decisions she is going to make. i don't make much about what the judge has said about collusion and otherwise. >> the other issue with ...

And i want to talk about the pardon question. the public testimony you watch would the rest of us, private testimony you can't speak about, what dounderstand that you didn't before? >> i saw a person who ran a business, who ran his personal life a campaign, a transition and an administration and a very corrupt way. i was hoping to hear -- because he is the president of the united states, that you would hear redeeming qualities about him. that he wanted to make lives better, an honest person. and after hearing from michael cohen in private over 24 hours over the last two years, i saw someone wh...