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Welcome back to "hardball." back with msnbc political analyst pat buchanan and salon's joan walsh. what do you think is the heat level if it turn out that the democratic national committee had been spending money on a lesbian bondage-themed club and dropped a couple "k" in the middle of the night and god knows young staffers enjoying to spend somebody else's money on this stuff. is getting off easy or is this a big problem or what? >> pat would never let me hear the end of it if that was the dnc, chris, you than. >> is he playing nancy pelosi? san francisco dumping off -- >> it would be my fau...

Other point, pat and i will turn it over to you. the other reason this is hitting the pope right now, chris, is as cardinal ratzinger, as the person in charge of church doctrine, he was implicated. he wrote a letter that urged bishops, priests, archbishops to keep these matters pontifical secret. >> this was in '62. that is what is coming -- >> no he -- >> no it couldn't be '62. >> no he -- >> that's not have a i'm looking at a doctrine that came out -- well, a document that came out of the church in '62 that talked about -- as joan was saying in in other regard. barring bishops from reporting...

Will all come down? patrick buchanan msnbc political analyst and john walsh is editor and chief at salon. pat and joan, take a look at this new gal op poll. have dropped since he visited the united states two years ago. today just 40% of americans, generally, have favorable views of the pope. it was 60% among catholics and 35% among non-catholics. it's gone down by about 20 points, on average. in those three categories. catholic, non-catholic and across the board. i want to go to pat firstane then to joan right away. what is the situation, as you see it, for the roman catholic church? i think ...

Republican party? are you a republican? >> i'm an independent in virginia. >> are you a republican? >> pat, can i tell you -- >> okay. you just said our party. was that a freudian slip? i want to know whether pat is in or out as we used to say. as bob dornan used to say, in or out, buddy? >> i was an independent, ran as an independent in 2000. you don't rejoin the party because you're independent in virginia. there's no party registration. i can't say i'm a republican. do i vote republican? almost every time. >> so you feel in your soul you're republican. >> goldwater, nixon, agnu republican. ...

We've gone to this iconic member. when i see you in old pictures, pat, like in houston when you gave the great speech, i'm amazed. you're a man of history. you're not just a guy on television with me. >> i've been to a lot of places way back there, chris. in '67 i was at that march in washington. >> were you one of the guys with the police? >> no, i came down with my press corps. i wanted to see it. they said they were going to levitate the pentagon. i didn't think they could do it. if they levitated it i wanted to see it. lift it off the ground. >> i was there in protest capacity. thank you, ...