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Seriously but not literally. there's no proof that there was any follow through, people don't listen to him, and here we're seeing in two different instances people do listen to him. and in the course of foreign policy it is in fact changed. >> the best defense of the president is he's an immensely incompetent weirdo no one pays attention to, but in this case that doesn't work because after that phone call with zelensky two u.s. officials show up with a paper for you to sign. >> and something quickly about what is happening to ukraine because this is a country that has struggled with corruptio...

A debate but the warfare going on right now is that you're going to have trump, apparently mike pence, you know, all the republicans basically saying there's nothing wrong with this, right, so what? >> as someone who you were in the legal department of the state department, right, and you also write about sort of the civil service and government and bure ocacy so you have sort of a scholar on this and a practitioner's view. what is your reaction to watching what appears to have happened to the state department's instruments of coercion for foreign policy peag sublimated to the president's poli...