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To not have even known they were there, they were boxed up by staff, not by him. they weren't, unlike donald trump, in his destroy with his passport where he obviously would've seen them. then it's different case. so this could be enough evidence to make the final decision for the special prosecutor in this case. and then the mar-a-lago case would be dealt with. and the pence case will be dealt with. both of them, all three of them, requires separate analysis of the facts. and the distinctions need to be brought forth which are cooperation versus obstruction. and only donald trump has obstruct...

He didn't have any after he left the vice presidency. and they found four documents that contained documents that appeared to have classified markings. they say they turned them over to the national archives and then the justice department got involved and the archives said that the justice department bypassed traditional procedures and wanted to take possession of the documents and the pence team consented that they do that. it's unclear what the fbi and the justice department is doing here, whether they are reviewing, whether they are contemplating a criminal investigation and the question y...

Thought when we knew only about president trump taking documents and refusing to give them back. now we know there's a systemic problem, both administrations. they had protocols in place. they clearly didn't work. something needs to be fixed apart from the special counsels. the system of classification and protecting documents is something that has to be addressed. >> charlie, how much of this document revelation by mike pence is about getting any potential political land mines out of the way ahead of any 2024 run? >> he is just doing his duty. i don't think merrick garland has much of a choic...

Material has been a very toxic issue in our politics, and it may be again depending on what we learn. another reason the trump matter is so different, and k aty, you know this so well, donald trump was so litigious, he was suing in the fallout of his, the search of his home, and that's what caused the department of justice, through legal papers, to give us all of the specific numbers about how many classified records, and that's how we saw the photo, that's how we had so much information, that we do not have in the biden case, or the pence case thus far. >> it is such a good point and i'm so h...

Review their records. for donald trump, it does something else, and that is i think in his case, it may take the heat off of him legally, because it is establishing a pattern that as beth said, this is the system that is broken and that needs to be fixed, and even though the trump case is completely different from the biden case and the pence case where they were immediately cooperative, i think that it may help him with how merrick garland moves forward. >> thank you, jamie gangel for moving forward and with the analysis, brad. and now, there is an urgent manhunt in washington after a man s...