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Take away your it in plane. howie: let me move on to roger stone. as you all know web was indicted in the mueller investigation. obstruction, lying to congress. and other charges having to do with his dealing and communications with wikileaks during the campaign. so there was an incredible mob scene at the courthouse in florida. then after stolen' proclaims his innocence. take a look. >> i never discussed this with donald trump. so speculation tonight by wolf blitzer, by others that trump directed me to do this or directed someone to direct me to do this -- howie: he says all that speculation ...

Who stone touted as an intermediary, a go-between, a mutually friend for him and assange. randy credico, person two, flatly denies stone's depiction of him as sharing information from assange to stone. >> the allegation from mr. stone is that you are the interimmediate year between assange and him. >> i have no idea some of the things i may have said to minimum, but certainly did not pass any information from julian assange to roger stone. >> so you -- >> today mueller reveals e-mails that show stone and credico discussing what wikileaks might release and credico allegedly passing, taking ston...

Is your own deduction? >> well, over my entire life going -- jerry, you come up with these deductions that are often right, you're going to have trouble getting people to believe them. >> right there you have corsi helping stone's defense, arguing it was not collusion, maybe just attempted collusion, but then corsi hurt stone by backing up what mueller charged today, allegedly that roger stone did intend to obstruct and mislead congress >> and why did roger stone want you to lie about the podesta information? >> you'll have to ask roger stone. i was given immunity by the mueller prosecutors in...

"yes, want to talk on a secure line got whatsapp?" so what does this indictment tell us about what robert mueller knows? joining me now is paul butler. a law professor at georgetown university, a former federal prosecutor and betsy woodruff, a politics reporter for "the daily beast. both are msnbc contributors. paul, i want to get your reaction to the indictment and the story it tells, both about the active collusion and the search for hillary clinton e-mail material from wikileaks by roger stone and this weird back and forth he has with the intermediary, the person who is identified as person...

Reason to have security because there was concern about destruction of evidence. maybe officers' safety but, joy, 29 armed fbi agents, 17 squad cars, a s.w.a.t. team, a 6:00 a.m. raid, that's extra, and what i think mueller was doing was sending a message to roger stone. if this is how the criminal justice system treats people who are presumed to be innocent, imagine what happens if you're convicted of a crime your dude, paul manafort, he's sitting in solitary confinement right now. if you don't want that result, you are looking right now at jail for the rest of your life you better think abou...