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Didn't go down. spending went up. same thing happened in 1990. although george bush, or george herbert walker bush was promised $2 in phony spending cuts for every dollar of tax increase. taxes went up. spending actually increased, it wasn't cut. twice the democrats have said, let's raise taxes and cut spending. twice taxes were increased, spending was not reduced at all. so, the american people aren't falling for that again. we know that if you raise taxes, the politicians in washington simply spend it. and they can promise anything they want, but lucy and the football, charlie brown isn't go...

Same thing happened in 1990. although george bush, or george herbert walker bush was promised $2 in phony spending cuts for every dollar of tax increase. taxes went up. spending actually increased, it wasn't cut. twice the democrats have said, let's raise taxes and cut spending. twice taxes were increased, spending was not reduced at all. so, the american people aren't falling for that again. we know that if you raise taxes, the politicians in washington simply spend it. and they can promise anything they want, but lucy and the football, charlie brown isn't going to fall for this again. >> but...

Ego maniac, whatever you want to call him, if that's his goal. he's down there. he ought to run for president, because that would be his platform, no taxes under any situation, even if your country goes to hell. >> what do you say to that? >> well, look, the tax issue is a very important issue. it's odd some people have tried to personalize it. but, the american people have had their taxes raised in the past. in 1982 the democrats said, jeerks if you let us raise taxes, we'll cut spending $3 for every dollar of tax increase. taxes were raised, spending didn't go down. spending went up. same th...

Conservative, somebody who is as conservative as they come. and i don't think i'm saying that critically. you said we have to raise taxes? >> absolutely. there is no way around the revenue shortfall that we have given the massive size of government that neither party wants to cut. >> grover, now here's the thing, i'm not setting these guys out as being my political allies. just the opposite, they're the other end of the spectrum, but there does seem to be an emerging consensus, yes, you've got to cut dramatically. but you've also got to raise some revenue. and isn't that necessarily how this c...

Reduce the deficit with a tax increase, you just can't do it? this represents $600 billion, that is 7% max of what the deficit is. >> great point. by the way, let me step back that you and i, we have lived through these budgeted deals. almost none of them worked out really well. this the first budget deal i can recall dating back to reagan years there wasn't a pretense of cutting spending. there would be three dollars of phony spending cuts -- there was increased spending with extension of unemployment. now i think the republicans are a little higher ground as we go forward. you saw president ...