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Holder play to that in the hearings recently, right? he basically made clear he felt victimed by isa and thought they were disrespectful to him and he used that very effectively. i think a legitimate point holder is making off the record meeting to explain why they are doing what they are doing but the concerns some of the press corps -- this is an investigation into whether there was an overreach or this is a complaint about whether there was an overreach into what the press does so that is why there is some line being drawn. >> howard, is there an overreach with the justice department? >> i ...

Actually. not the department. look federal judge, holder is not abiding by our contempt order. you the federal judge says hey i'm telling to you abide by that contempt order. if you don't, you are in contempt of court not the congress. >> bill: what can happen then. >> then and it's only happened twice this history, 1974 with water gate and. >> 2008. >> 2008. then the judge says i don't care, holder, you are handing those over or you are in contempt. can't put him in jail because it's not a criminal matter. at that point holder would have turn over the documents. >> bill: key fine him a lot of...

Actually. not the department. look federal judge, holder is not abiding by our contempt order. you the federal judge says hey i'm telling to you abide by that contempt order. if you don't, you are in contempt of court not the congress. >> bill: what can happen then. >> then and it's only happened twice this history, 1974 with water gate and. >> 2008. >> 2008. then the judge says i don't care, holder, you are handing those over or you are in contempt. can't put him in jail because it's not a criminal matter. at that point holder would have turn over the documents. >> bill: key fine him a lot of...

Federal judge, commerce actually. not the department. look federal judge, holder is not abiding by our contempt order. you the federal judge says hey i'm telling to you abide by that contempt order. if you don't, you are in contempt of court not the congress. >> bill: what can happen then. >> then and it's only happened twice this history, 1974 with water gate and. >> 2008. >> 2008. then the judge says i don't care, holder, you are handing those over or you are in contempt. can't put him in jail because it's not a criminal matter. at that point holder would have turn over the documents. >> bil...