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It was put in at the height of bad relations to keep things from boiling over. this was not that. and this was not a thing. this would have been something extraordinary that kushner was talking about. that's point one. point two, in your view, why should, to cynthia's point, the trump administration be so worried about this guy, general? >> i think on point one, the best way to think about what they were doing, they were trying to establish a secret channel with russia that no one in the u.s. government could overhear. they were trying to do it using, remember, russian equipment. i think they ...

Of a sudden get in front of an acting attorney general whitaker who might be looking to rein him in or tamp him down. he is content to do things on his own timetable, in his own way, and he didn't feel the need to put a whole bunch of information into the public square in this memo, so i think both of those inferences are fairly drawn from these documents. >> matt, my first question for you is procedural. i just heard myself again using that word "backchannel to russia." that's inaccurate. what they were trying to set up, i believe, was a workaround. backchannel we have. it's the red phone. it...

Walked back by the lawyers, they keep lucying the football, moving it and moving it. he's sitting down and writing it. what's the significance? >> one, it's clear they do not want the president to sit down with mueller or anyone from his team. he would be a truly disastrous witness. i know mimi has dealt with witnesses like this, i have as well. it's the mr. i alone can fix it. it might work well at a republican convention but it doesn't work well as a witness. so that's point one. point two is that they don't -- you know, he -- i lost my train of thought. the -- >> hold on one second. i'll co...

What's the significance? >> one, it's clear they do not want the president to sit down with mueller or anyone from his team. he would be a truly disastrous witness. i know mimi has dealt with witnesses like this, i have as well. it's the mr. i alone can fix it. it might work well at a republican convention but it doesn't work well as a witness. so that's point one. point two is that they don't -- you know, he -- i lost my train of thought. the -- >> hold on one second. i'll come back to you. i want to ask about that question. there's a thought that this is the capstone that the mueller report,...

Trump confidant roger stone. but there's something new, e-mails and texts that raise questions. we will test the man to questions. point two, in four days something big is going to happen with these elections and it's down to two voices, obama versus trump. the president now wants a strong comparison to the past president. he said that should be the voter's measure. so we have a deep dive for you how the two size-up. and a republican is here tonight who refuses to stay silent on what the president is putting out there. and he is walking the walk in a really unique way. the head of his party ...