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Democrats' efforts to establish potential wrongdoing with the president's action with ukraine. he does say it gives more evidence of obstruction, but he granted that it gets in the way of getting to the bottom of this. and i'm just curious what the strategy is. it sounds like democrats are still trying to develop a strategy. >> well, i think we are, and i think judiciary had the same problem, we were stonewalled. people refused to comply with subpoenas. we've gone to court on contempt case citations that the courts are still ruling and/or they've been appealed. i think all of this is obstructi...

>> well, it sounds like there were conversations that they wanted to take offline because they didn't want people to know about it. if you follow the text, you can see what happened, they're talking about the tit for tat and the quid pro quo, and someone says, let's take this offline. and then there's a period of five hours where there's no communication on the official communication devices which sounds like they were talking about it on another way. and it sounds like the personal device is the way. whether or not mr. schiff had seen this, his statement that they're highly relevant is true. ...

Fairly consistently over the last few weeks. >> yes. >> 58% say the house was correct to start an impeachment inquiry, 38% say no. i will say, you heard from republicans that they were briefed on their own party polling which shows opposition in swing districts. and it's that opposition to impeachment in swing districts, and it's that polling that they're more focused on than national polling? >> that's absolutely right, jim. the polls have shown us a stunning shift in impeachment among americans overall. that shift is democrats moving in favor of impeachment and a lot of independents. and tha...

It's terrible lawyering. it's a shame to see from rudy giuliani. he was the attorney for the southern district of new york. he was a legend. now he's a joke. >> you said legally. is it a good pr strategy. something good and bad and something good. >> no, yes, no. >> i don't know. i'm not going to say it's a good strategy. i know it worked. it worked with stormy daniels. he fell through the cracks. aided by the doj policy against indicting a sitting president. because it worked once doesn't make it a good strategy. young potential lawyers and law school students at home, don't do this at home. ...

>> so they funneled it through a law firm? >> and the president repaid it. >> oh. he did. >> he didn't know the details of this. until we knew. a couple weeks ago. maybe ten days ago. >> oh. is there a method to this madness? >> rudy tonight had a jack nickelson. you're damn right i ordered -- it's step one deny it, admit it, and step three yeah it happened. but it's okay, what's wrong with it? we saw all three steps tonight. terrible lawyering. it's a shame to see from rudy giuliani. he was the attorney for the southern district of new york. he was a legend. now he's a joke. >> you said legal...