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He's achieving the same thing. >> it's effective. truth isn't truth. joyce, one of those answers he gave is a reversal. the other is setting the ground work for a reversal, it appears. from a legal standpoint, would there be any reason rudy giuliani would do that other than what brett suggested, confusion? >> well, since i don't have to speak to rudy giuliani later today, maybe i can be a little more freer with my comments. i'll just say that rudy giuliani is clearly running a pr strategy that's unworthy of a former united states attorney that's just incredibly and increasingly unseamly. becau...

Snitches can't be trusted. those are good points. here's the part -- and you two hit on it right away -- he is too relaxed in these interviews. these are serious moments and people are watching and he hasn't thought his argument through. >> that's why i feel this is less about a legal strategy and more about a pr strategy, like it's always been. >> is robert mueller looking at this and taking information that's important and meaningful? >> he's breaking every rule. he's being glib. he's being dismissive. he's doing everything that will make the government attorneys angry, because he's offering...

He told the american people he had no more dealings with russia, and rudy puts this out in a way so by the time the truth comes to light from legitimate sources, the american people are numb to it. no legal impact. just a pr strategy. >> a revelation from that conversation that rudy giuliani had on television was about the reach of the special counsel. here's what he said. >> they're going back to 1982. 1983. they're going through business records. >> now, again, we should point out we don't know if that's actually true, but if he is telling the truth, joyce, that they're examining the preside...

Even some reporting they are fought planning much of anything even though there's a report. what are we hearing? >> i don't think anybody should expect the white house to have much of a plan when it comes to anything coming out of the court filings, whether it's today or any other day, really. the strategy for several months now from the white house's perspective is to let president trump take the lead on how to respond to robert mueller. president trump alone is the person who is directing the pr strategy, the communications strategy around responding to these issues and you are hearing from ...

Disseminated. they felt they needed to have some kind of pr strategy in place. and they felt they also had to deal with it in a legal context. >> this is remarkable scoop. i can't wait to hear sort of the rest of the story when we figure it out. we'll be right back. stay with us. but you're still moved by moments like this. don't let psoriatic arthritis take them away. taltz reduces joint pain and stiffness and helps stop the progression of joint damage. for people with moderate to severe psoriasis, 90% saw significant improvement. taltz even gives you a chance at completely clear skin. don't ...