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This is not a coherent legal strategy by any stretch or not even an effective one or not even an effective pr strategy. rudy giuliani is not there to serve the president as a lawyer in the traditional sense. he is there as a political hencheman. part of his task is to simply muddy the waters and insist that things he said a month ago he never said to keep moving the dates in the negotiation goalpost. what he gets out of this is not entirely clear expect for the fact they convinced a fair chunk of the population essentially that what robert mueller is doing is the equivalent of a political witc...

Donald trump's base is going to deter them from ducting oversight up to and including impeachment for the president? i don't think so. >> phil, do you think there is -- as much as your point is well taken on the pr strategy, the president may face a very real legal problem that is going to rare a very intense sophisticated defense. >> like lawyering. >> like practice of law. is he prepared for that. are there people to do that? >> john mentioned emmet flood who is a real lawyer doing lawyer's work. we don't see him on tv. i don't think we've ever seen him on tv since he's been working for pres...

Is more of a pr strategy than a legal strategy. i feel sometimes like i'm having breakfast with giuliani. he's on my television so much. but that may be the right way to go in the end this could go to congress, whatever report comes out, if democrats take the house, this could be impeachment. this will be a political fight. and i think the president's team is setting it up that way. we know the president's lawyers don't want him to testify, but they also don't -- or to do the interview, but they also don't want it to look like he doesn't want to do the interview because that might look like he...

Elections is something that actually the fcc should be looking into. they're preparing for impeachment and they're trying to win hearts and minds. >> ken, they did so, i imagine not being a lawyer but a layperson, at some professional peril. listen to what mimi rocah said. "i suppose it could attract some attention, american bar association type stuff." does the base need that much bolstering that these guys have to dog and pony it across xm radio? >> brian, it's very much a part of the pr strategy that the president himself has led and set the tone for, and it just shows frankly how far rudy ...

Special counsel a deadline of september 1st to finish his investigation. then on friday, giuliani stepped in with jay sekulow to guest-host sean hannity's radio show. three hours counting. some have questioned these decisions and others including "vanity fair" abigail tracy who wrote an article entitled giuliani's screw ball legal strategy is more dangerous than it seems. abigail is here with us. i know you chose your words carefully, first of all, screwball and dangerous. what is screw saand bascrewball? >> i think what the rounds that you've seen is him becoming more unhinged in his statemen...