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Made -- almost always made of rice starch, tapioca starch, these raise blood sugars very high and cause visceral fat to accumulate and make us diabetic and give us arthritis, i wouldn't want to trade one problem area, wheat for another problem area, gluten free. >> what bothers me most, if this is true and, you know, have a lot of facts to back you up, everybody told us to eat the whole wheat. they told us to eat oat bran and that ended up not being true and they have us eating wheat bread for 10 years, now that's not true. what are we to believe anymore besides gretchen? >> well, that's right...

>> that doesn't sound too good. our next guest says the best way to get healthy and lose weight is to ditch wheat completely. joining us now is dr. william davis, preventative cardioologist and author of the new book "wheat belly." good morning to you, doctor. >> good morning. >> so the amazing thing here is that you say that wheat, whole wheat is actually an appetite stimulant, right? >> exactly. that's a crucial point to understand how wheat interacts with humans. there's an odd protein unique to wheat and this protein has essentially been reengineered over the past 40 years by some very cle...