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Military have been outrageous, and i don't think we would get the same cooperation or same honesty if we were forcing these individuals to have to testify to millions of people and face the wrath of the president of the united states and republicans. >> but they ultimately will, right? you'll take sort of the best ofs and put them together for public hearings? >> yes, i think a lot of the depositions will eventually be released, but not everyone is going to have to testify publicly. and they are going to have the opportunity first to make the case in private instead of in the glare of the tele...

There. has that argument now become less important, less salient because of this vote? >> i think they will. and i think the important point is the way they use this. which is they don't feel the need to win the overall argument about what happened. so it could be a different process argument every day as long as there is something that they're concerned about, that can feed their machine, that can feed their right-wing media machine. keep the base energized in some fashion. they don't to rebutt to the actual facts. you know, let me go on a limb and say this is not on a level. this is the deep...

This is pretty straight forward. we have the rough transcript and the president's own words and other people who were on the call. i just don't think it was really that effective. they are still trying to hold on to this process. they want to have this process argument even though the house has voted the way they wanted to. that underscores the ability to defend the president. >> the president says he wants to talk about things beyond the process. >> we saw that backfire from mick mulvaney here. >> this is part of the challenge.

I hope they release everything and i hope they have every single one of these witnesses testify in an open hearing in front of the american people. the process argument at least from my perspective isn't the point. process is trying to get the truth and trying to get fairness and i've not felt a single part of this is about transparency or credibility. >> let me ask you something, do you believe a united states president should be able to ask a foreign sovereign for help in an election? >> do i believe -- so i'm going to answer the question but i'm going to start with this -- this president di...

The american people. the process argument at least from my perspective isn't the point. process is trying to get the truth and trying to get fairness and i've not felt a single part of this is about transparency or credibility. >> let me ask you something, do you believe a united states president should be able to ask a foreign sovereign for help in an election? >> do i believe -- so i'm going to answer the question but i'm going to start with this -- this president did believe that ukraine was corrupt, he believed the ukraine was involved in the 2016 election, that was abundantly clear. he do...