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Variety of a campaign violation. and they're quickly cleared up and people pay fines and they go forward. they don't lie about them continuously. they don't begin harassing witnesses who are going to testify about them. this is a whole different kind of ball game that we're in here now. and i think it's going to be very hard for members of congress who seem to be continually moving the goal posts, well, it's nauticalution, well it's just a process crime, well it's just a little process crime to really escape the import of what he is saying. >> i don't normally -- i try to avoid coverage of wha...

Now. and i think it's going to be very hard for members of congress who seem to be continually moving the goal posts, well, it's nauticalution, well it's just a process crime, well it's just a little process crime to really escape the import of what he is saying. >> i don't normally -- i try to avoid coverage of what's going to happen tomorrow tonight. i usually have enough to handle with what's happening today, but this is one of those nights we really had to set the table for what's happening. and you have done that perfectly for us. i really appreciate it. and when we come back, the congr...

Should be concerned about and wonder about. but, in terms of his original charge -- i'm not saying it isn't going to happen. >> does obstruction prove the collusion? in your mind. >> it sure comes close. it's a thin read to say you've been indicted about obstruction of justice relating to the russian collusion and not the collusion itself. some people denigrate these as process crime. anyone in law enforcement knows these are really crucial crimes because it obscures the search for the truth. look at manafort and how much he's been lying and delaying the mueller investigation. >> how much shou...

Evidence, the first direct testimony we've had that the scheme wasn't just to sort of undermine the way things were supposed to work, it was in fact to throw the election to a republican candidate? >> well, it was the first time we've heard someone say directly, yes, i filled in a ballot that wasn't mine, i voted on a ballot that didn't belong to me. you're right, that is in a different category than the process crime. in north carolina it is illegal to collect ballots. as you said, in sto statome sta that's legal. the mark harris lawyers tried to make a distinction. they asked the witness, di...

Process crimes. like, in some states, it's not necessarily illegal to collect people's ballots and bundle them and bring them. like, it all sort of seems like these are technical violations. what was striking to me was hearing one of the people who was working as part of the scheme to say, yeah, i filled in the votes. i actually cast the votes. i checked off the box or whatever it was for all the republican candidates, where people had left these things blank. is this the first direct evidence that we've had, the first direct testimony that we've had that this scheme wasn't just to sort of und...