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We've heard about the trump junior meeting, rick, with everybody else who was there, amounts to anything conspiratorial. i don't know if they have proof that he conspired to commit a crime. i don't know that it gets that car. but it certainly creates a case for special need, that's a defined term under the law that they defined in the espy case, for the special counsel to need to interview the president, because of too many competing stories. i can't get to his intent with all these different threads, i need to hear him, look at him, process him. what do you say to that? >> well, what's materi...

Process him. what do you say to that? >> well, what's material about whether the president dictated a statement or he didn't to whether there was collusion between the trump campaign and the russians? >> because it's a lie. okay. >> why would you lie? >> it may have been a lie, it may have been a mistake, we don't know. the point is, there's no material evidence that's being presented that that statement had anything to do with collusion with the russians. this is well after the fact. this is about shaping the media's response to it. and as you heard rudy say, you know, once it sounds like peo...