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Presented that that statement had anything to do with collusion with the russians. this is well after the fact. this is about shaping the media's response to it. and as you heard rudy say, you know, once it sounds like people got their act together and actually sat down and said what really did happen, they found out that, hey, the president actually -- >> they never said it to us. they put it in a letter. in the law they have an suppression, rick, if you're lying about one thing, you can be assumed to be lying about a lot of things and it makes investigators curious. but let's switch topics. ...

Comcast, building america's largest gig-speed network. a book that you're ready to share with the world? get published now, call for your free publisher kit today! welcome back. we've got a lot to unpack from our interview a few moments ago with rudy giuliani. let's have the great debate with jenner granholm and rick nt good to have you both here on the first show. thank you very much for doing it. >> oh, of course. >> i think i can speak on behalf of jennifer to say we are both very pleased and honored to be on, and congratulations on the show. >> for sure. that's the only time rick will be...

We've heard about the trump junior meeting, rick, with everybody else who was there, amounts to anything conspiratorial. i don't know if they have proof that he conspired to commit a crime. i don't know that it gets that car. but it certainly creates a case for special need, that's a defined term under the law that they defined in the espy case, for the special counsel to need to interview the president, because of too many competing stories. i can't get to his intent with all these different threads, i need to hear him, look at him, process him. what do you say to that? >> well, what's materi...

You heard the rudy interview. i think one of the big things, rick, he swears to god, in the holy land, that what is going on with the eon of trump and his role in that response t others there in trump tower with the russian, is a mistake. how is this a mistake? would you swear to god about this being a mistake, rick? >> well, look. i mean, it was obviously a mistake. the question is whether it was a deliberate mistake or planned mistake or was it just a simple mistake. i can understand, if that's what jay sekulow told him, that he had it wrong, that the information was passed along to him, or ...