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Multiple discussions with special counsel's office and fbi agents described and footnoted throughout volume 1 of the mueller report, there's been a lot of reporting that he quochltquochlt cooperated with the government-w those prosecutors, with some sort of immunity deal, at least a limited immunity deal. does our understanding of that previous reporting change at all now that he's been arrested? >> i don't think it changes a lot but there's still some gaps that we haven't been able to fill in. but basically i think the simplest answer is he cooperated under some sort of proffer terms and we'r...

>> i think that must relate to ongoing investigations by mueller and to places where even discussing the nature of manafort's lies in his proffer sessions with mueller would reveal essentially secrets that the prosecution believes should not be for the public. >> let me ask you about the significance of this. everyone keeps saying mueller is almost done. if he were almost done would he be seeing transcripts that come out that have this much black in them? >> no. yeah, everyone is the trump team. everyone is giuliani. so we have to be careful repeating what they're telling us. there's no -- loo...

Trump's former campaign chairman, lied to the fbi, lied to a grand jury, lied to robert zbla mueller's investigators, lied, intentionally, on multiple 12k34 occasions, lied about contact with russians. he's supposed to be a cooperating witness. as you might imagine, as we so often find ourselves saying, this is a big development. cnn's evan perez joins us with the latest. walk us through exactly what was and what was not in this ruling. >> reporter: anderson, prosecutors from the special counsel's office accused manafort of lying on five different occasions, five different topics, during the t...

Time he was supposed to be cooperating. he had pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate as part of the investigation. he had met with prosecutors over many, many hours of what they call proffer sessions and during that time he was lying according to the prosecutors. in the judge's ruling today she said there was enough evidence to show he lied in at least three of those occasions. one had to do with a payment that he had received to help pay for some of his legal bills, and two of them had to do with constantine, a name we've heard a lot, somebody who is going to figure, i think, very importantl...

To deceive the special counsel's office investigation and derail it to some extent, or were these instances where somebody was misremembering something that had happened a long time ago. the government presented a pretty compelling case in this hearing as to why these were not just memory lapses. >> you also bored in on the word intelligence in this document. that that was perhaps the initial attractiveness toward doing a deal with manafort for the feds. talk about that. >> something that the prosecutors mentioned in the beginning of the hearing, they were trying to put a little context into w...