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Him, lavrov, not putin, mind you, but the foreign minister, what happens in your heart and head? >> well, this is an unthinkable scene. i mean first of all, just on protocol grounds, what is the russian foreign minister doing having a bilateral meeting with the president of the united states? >> his equivalent is the secretary of state. >> correct. he would be normally, in the normal course of things, if there weren't something else going on at the state department with his counterpart. but also again remember the dog that isn't barking, the zelensky oval office meeting at a head of state leve...

But better to start that recovery process sooner rather than later. that's for sure. >> when you see a picture like the scene today in the oval office with our president seated andr grinning and looming abov him lavrov. not putin, mind you, but the foreign minister. what happens in your heart and head? >> well, this is an unthinkable scene. just on protocol grounds, what is the russian foreign minister doing having a bilateral meeting with the president of the united states? >> his equivalent is thewi secretary of state. >> correct. he would be normally in the normal course of e things, if the...

Recover as credibility. and these alliances, i've been traveling a fair amount in the last recent weeks and months, and the amount of hedging going on, countries taking positions, vis-a-vis china, that you would have never expected them to take, just recognizing that they're not sure where the united states is going to be in the short, medium and long term, so that's going to be hard to recover but better to start that recovery process sooner rather than later, that's for sure. >> when you see a picture like the scene today in the oval office not putin, mind you, but the foreign minister. what...