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And to rudy giuliani and more importantly, less splashy was emmet flood who came in and really halted a lot of access for mueller. so it was a significant change in their posture. but i don't want to say the damage had been done. the truth had been told. they already had all this information, and i think it's remarkable, as you said, that all you see is george stephanopoulos asking questions that, you know -- and i'm not trying to take away from george's performance. it's masterful. but simply asking what's now been public for months, what's in the mueller report, and trump falls apart, sort o...

Trump that we know of, who has direct knowledge of the conversations that mcgahn had with the president, concurs unanimously that what mcgahn says matches reality. there's not a single credible witness who disputes thus far any of the claims that mcgahn has made except, of course, trump himself, who as jonathan pointed out, kind of is a little bit iffy in the way he verbalizes this. it's his odd way of talking about these complex legal matters. one of the things that's really interesting is the fact that president trump's legal team sort of shifted the way it talked about mueller when rudy giu...

Change. there seems to me, again -- you guys know this a lot better than me. i'm not a student of the democratic party in the way you guys are, but there's a real hunger for the kind of structural change that she's putting up, and just not having done it before. being a fresh face, not having gone through the process and being sort of lastier year's ne or last cycle's news has its own value. i remember covering the 2016 campaign, and there is just that sense that ted cruz had around him where he was connected to the base. the activists loved him. he was fresh on the scene, and he did have deta...

Impeachment should they ever arrive there. she is one of the driving forces, not the only one. don't tweet me. but she is one of the driving forces. she called for impeachment. so i think that -- i think you're talking about her policies. she's got piles and piles of policies. she also has been driving the impeachment message, the sort of laws were broken by donald trump in the mueller report message in a way has really excited the democratic base. >> yeah, she's -- and again i'll probably get tweeted at for saying it. >> we'll split them. >> she's sort of the ted cruz of the race. what i mean...

Summary of what the mueller report said. i think you're talking about her policy, she has piles and piles of policies, she's been driving the impeachment message, the laws were broken by donald trump in the mueller report in a way that's excited the democratic base. >> i'll probably get tweeted for saying this, she's sort of the ted cruz of the race. what i mean is she has the sharpest edge to her. she's never going to be outflanked on the left and she's got real -- like her policies have real meat to them. bernie sanders is very good at talking in high terms, in sort of sweeping themes. she s...