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Look, people can be right upside and wrong down the other, but the cache among certain people says it, it becomes a little different. again, that's not fair. and the second part of that is i think trump, and trump particularly following barack obama has had a radicalizing effect on a lot of people, i think. >> one of the things that we hear a lot about and that you talked about yesterday, and i want to play the sound of mitch mcconnell and lindsey graham, the big argument against it -- there is a bunch of arguments. the big one is this is a long time ago and no one alive today is responsible. ...

Article. it's long-standing, and as you say in that article it's built upon decade anson decorates of scholarship. it does feel like there is a moment where it has received a degree of mainstream legitimacy that are new. >> i think there things are responsible for that. this is not fair, but i think the atlantic enjoys a space among quote/unquote serious people. i just have to be frank. i knew this at the time. look, people can be right upside and wrong down the other, but the cache among certain people says it, it becomes a little different. again, that's not fair. and the second part of that...

The first is and this is not fair, but i think the atlantic enjoys a kind of space among very serious people. i just have to be frank. i knew this at the time. look, people can be right up on one side and down the other. with the outlet with people that said it and it becomes different. that's not fair. i think trump and trump particularly following barack obama had a radicalizing effect on a lot of people. >> one of the things that we hear a lot about and you talked about yesterday and i want to play the sound of mitch mcconnell and lindsey graham, there is a bunch of arguments. this was a lo...

Moment for this particular issue, this is not -- you know, the issue did not arise with your atlantic article. it's a long-standing, and as you say in that article and say in every opportunity, it's built upon decades and decades of scholarship and other folks. but it feels like there's a ach degree of mainstream legitimacy that is new. >> i think two things are responsible for that. the first is and this is not fair, but i think the atlantic enjoys a kind of space among very serious people. i just have to be frank. i knew this at the time. look, people can be right up on one side and down the...

Invincible. it is just a matter of who is going to show that. >> and i guess i have to ask how much of this was accelerated by barack obama, his presence in the white house for eight years? >> i think social science is pretty clear that barack obama had kind of a radicalizing effect on a lot of white people in america. there is a book by political scientist michael tesler and what it found was that people's views on public policy issues that weren't previously racialized associated race or views on race became racialized during obama's presidency. that absolutely colored the reaction to donald...