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And these people hit by covid, the camps have been shut down, their lost their lively hood for a year. they were enthusiastic about having visitors and now penalized for their transparency in revealing this. i feel sorry for them. >> martha: with regard to how americans perceive this president's handle of covid because really that was one of the strongest things that joe biden ran on, that was he would handle covid better than the previous president, president trump did. when you look at the number of deaths, there's more deaths in 2021. 413,000 compared with 362,000 in 2020. we experienced it...

Feel that the administration has not made as much progress as they would like to see. so that's what i was struck by in the statement we saw tonight. >> so jonathan carl, back to the business of this white house, next week begins a marathon. the question to you is what will they -- and by "they" i mean white house, congress, all of it -- what will they actually be able to achieve in the real world by the end of this calendar year? >> well, first, if i can just pick up very briefly on what ashley just said, i think that there's a fifth thing that biden really ran on, and that was a return to no...

Calendar year? >> well, first, if i can pick up very briefly on what ashley just said, i think there's a fifth thing that biden really ran on, and that was a return to normalcy and a respect for the rule of law. and when the rittenhouse verdict came out, he said, we stand with the jury. the jury system works. that would have been nearly impossible for him to say if this verdict had came back a different way. but here we saw a jury, a nearly all white jury in the deep south come forward and deliver justice in a highly charged case that shocked the nation last year. i think the biggest emotion t...

Of that $6 trillion. i would argue they spent $800 billion too much on it but we needed most of the $6 trillion. and i think many folks believe now is the time to pump the brakes and show some restraint. i have always felt that joe biden was elected to bring about greater stability and normalcy to the funkction of government, not to transform the government. that's what bernie sanders ran on and he lost. >> and look, i am not going to get into a rowwith you because that's what you are. you are a small-government conservative. and um, that's where we -- that's where we used to be. we're not the...

And medically and economically? >> yeah, i think look, i think the american public realizes we needed to spend most of the $6 trillion, i would argue they spent $800 billion. we needed most of the $6 trillion. many folks believe now is the time to pump the brakes and show some restraint. i've always felt that joe biden was e llected to bring normalcy not transform the government. that's what bernie sanders ran on and lost. >> listen -- >> this is a complete miscalculations. >> i'm not going to get into a rawl with you. you're a small government conservative and that's where we used to be. we'r...