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federal court. the bottom line is, he is toast! there is nothing he can do -- [laughs] >> i was gonna say screwed. there is a consistency problem here. you can say many times, in public, on television, there was all kinds of things in those boxes. i don't know what was in those boxes. so it's very hard to get from -- at and have any idea what was in the boxes, to, i know they planted things. do you agree with that? >> i completely agree. judge dearie is a no nonsense judge. he's not going to take pr statements and say that that has any merit and his court. he is going to say as these...

And murderers. these are bad people that he has obviously was in business with, and the other thing that is happening here is that his identity, the identity of his family. and i actually think that this ripples out to the self concept of all of those followers. it's all crumbling. and this is devastating to them as people, but also a public figures and business leaders. >> yes, and i listen, michael, just sitting here listening to these three gentlemen, the gravity of this, and the reality settling in for him and the people as you said, the family members, and the people that he did business ...