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And as abby alluded to, he has had a relatively moderate record over the years, including on some issues that are pretty central to the democrat party's identity like banking regulation and criminal justice. that's all stuff he would have to address in a totally different way as a candidate. i do think he has, as abby wisely said, something of a halo coming off his years in the obama administration where people may be reluctant to believe he's a conservative. >> you work in criminal justice and you know where the issues have really changed or the focus on the issues have changed from when joe ...