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Ex-officials in those foreign governments, communicating presumably in unsecured manner with them, is thinsetting polic perhaps. it seems, frankly, like a nightmare from a counterintelligence perspective or a national security perspective. >> i think rudy giuliani is masquerading as donald trump's lawyer. he is this personal envoy who is trying to seek out dirt on the political rivals of donald trump. so he's engaged in thee activities that are clearly not coordinated with the department of state, as our ambassadors and others have attested to. and so, therefore, rudy giuliani is just this rog...

And you'd have any other president firing people who were engaged in such misconduct. so again, we have a president who is saying wasn't me, rudy was doing something on his own, i don't know, he has ukraine clients of his own. and then you have people under the president's chain of command repeatedly dealing with rudy on the phone. so which is it? and if it is not you, mr. president, why don't you go ahead and start terminating some of these people who had these allegedly dirty conversations perhaps with this rogue operator rudy giuliani? >> and garrett, there is another rogue operator perhaps...

A quality individual. but at this trial prosecutors are going to portray stone as a corrupt individual, a rogue operator. and stone himself has embraced the idea of being a dirty triktsster. so if stone is dwiktd and sent to prison, he'll be the latest in a long line of people close to donald trump who are exposed as felons and sent to prison. and as lawmakers evaluate trump's conduct that's going to be a factor and this trial will expose the extent to which the trump campaign was pursuing those hacked emails that everyone knew came from russian intelligence, hallie. >> ken delaney live for us...

Records. >> and let's talk about this. there's an interesting i don't want to call it a sub plot, but an interesting story about rudy guiliani, his role in reaching out to the ukrainians, and sometimes he says he is acting on behalf of his client, the president, other times says he is operating on behalf of the state department, sometimes he is holding up a phone or ipad to show text messages from somebody at the state department. and it seems that he is trying to suggest that the state department is involved in this and that he wasn't this rogue operator. >> yeah. first of all, two things. th...

Trump every time he goes out and talks. >> let's just put it out there again. it was a late night television interview so we don't know what happened beforehand. every time giuliani goes on television, you wonder if the mueller investigation doesn't get extended by a few weeks because they have to go back. if you are doing your job correctly as bob mueller, you have to listen to that, go over that and wonder what is behind it. possibly what's behind it is paul manafort being thrown under a bus, and giuliani saying we have to sacrifice paul manafort. let's shift the line from the campaign in ge...