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Making the same points prior to iraq and iran. skeptical in listening to the military on these matters. skeptical of another -- not just in the united states but in england as well. >> the specter of iraq has informed almost every aspect of this debate. y you look at what's happening in rye iraq. 4,000 civilians killed this year, 10,000 wounded. iraq isn't even over. it's one of the bloodiest years since the u.s.-led invasion. madden, i think a lot of people say elections were won on and run faced on opposition to the war in iraq. if congress were to be given a vote on syria, i think congress ...

Were 110 democrats that voted for the iraq war resolution, 67 of those democrats, including john cary, john edwards, hillary clinton, on the floor of the congress said iraq had weapons of mass destruction. >> the problem with that, as you know, it does not matter what the democrats on the floor of congress thought. the question was did bush lie in the run-up to iraq. the evidence overwhelming is he misled the intelligence. >> well, i personally think think president bush believed what's going on in iraq or i don't think that other people, other officialeither. the problem i have with karl rove...

Clyburn, whipping very hard goat those votes. >> nbc news washington bureau chief mark whitaker, thanks as always. good to see you. we will have much more on congressman massa's resignation and what his future plans may be and whether it is good politics on the schuster showdown. coming up later this hour. vice president joe biden vus itted the palestinian territories today. highest level trip to the territories by any obama administration official so far. in an msnbc exclusive biden told chris matthews this is a moment of opportunity for peace with israel. biden also expressed concerns. b...

Again, this could be trouble for the right-wing media which embraced massa. now karl rove. >> you can go back and try to rewrite history. at that moment we are faced with the belief he had wmd, a threat to the region and after 9/11, the calculus change. >> controversy continues to fall with the former adviser karl rove. "courage and consequence." rove defends the push president and i says the administration did not lie during the run-up to the war with rye iraq. prompted fact checkers to proclaim the rove book belongs in the fiction section. joining us now, matt latimer. thanks for joining us....

Dick cheney, august 2002. simply stated, no doubt that saddam hussein has weapons of mass destruction. no doubt that he's amassing them to use against our friends, allies and against us. bush and cheney knew that there was doubts. for karl rove to say that they never lied is just flat-out wrong. >> well, again, president clinton said the same thing in 1998 before that about iraq. >> he didn't take the nation to war. that's the difference. >> president clinton did bomb iraq and did talk about removing saddam hussein's regime from power. there's a lot of intelligence, foreign officials thought t...