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Mercenaries just attempted a rebellion against his military leadership and maybe even him? joining me now is admirable james -- he is the former ally commander and msnbc chief analyst. thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. i really just wanted to start here with the impact of what we saw over the last 48 hours, specifically of the fact that it looks like no longer will there be fighters of the wagner group, at least in the size they've been and, on the battlefield. what do you think the impact of that will be? >> well it's enormous, good news for ukraine, jen. the most effective rus...

Assist the current 2,500 troops currently there. they will not be armed. they will not use force or make arrests in accordance of the law that prevents the military for enforcing law within the borders of the united states. the department of homeland security says it will serve -- the troops will -- in a supplemental role, helping with dasks like ground monitoring and data entry. troops are going to the border, uh-oh. what does it mean to send 1,500 more troops down there? >> yeah. before i was supreme ally commander in nato and really focussed on europe and afghanistan, i spent three years as...

They're all excellent. we know what's coming there. the important meeting is in brussels. these are the defense ministers of all 30 of the nation's in the alliance, plus defense ministers from sweden and finland, nations who will very soon be joining the alliance, are representative as americans, of course, our secretary of defense lloyd austin. so it is a meeting where the strategy is going to be on the table, going to be discussed in depth. when i was supreme ally commander, meetings would focus on afghanistan, the balkans, today it is ukraine, ukraine and ukraine. and that makes sense. fina...

Something very provocative like the invasion of ukraine, they'll work with or they'll help out the united states or other western powers as sort of a signal to say, look, remember, we can actually help you in some places so remember that when you're responding to what we're about to do in a kinetic way. it's a really fascinating dichotomy, katie. >> thank you all as well. with me now is former supreme ally commander at nato, admiral james defreitis. he is our chief diplomacy analyst. admiral, thanks so much for joining us. i want to ask you about what some lawmakers are demanding of the white ...

>> ukraine being outmanned, outgunned. what you are saying is it would not be necessary easy rollover by putin. >> that is right. first of all, ukraine is ready to fight and nato still has some very powerful options here. you hear about the russian airplanes that are flying, well, nato has quite a few airplanes threw up right now primarily doing very close surveillance all over ukraine in looking at those russian forces. nato's options include using its airpower. a very quick decision for the ally commander. they will not walk to kyiv or another location. nato has the resources to stop that an...