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Secrets, more than 1 million pages of them. he still a hero too many in groups like aclu and amnesty international called upon president obama to our name before leaving office, obama did it. a new book aggressively questions the idea that he was any kind of hero saying that he deliberately sought to steal american secrets before accepting putin's offer to defect to russia. edward epstein has dedicated his life to investigating a lot of things including journalism, he released his latest book how america lost its secrets snowden, the man at the theft, edward jay epstein, great to see you. you ...

Thunderstorm in terms of what happened to american intelligence because of the damage purposely and deliberately inflicted by snowden. >> tucker: it was purposeful and deliberate you demonstrate you went over to russia, what was his motive, exactly? >> i don't know his motive. i'm more or less interested -- i'm more interested in his actions, why he took these documents, 1.5 million files, according to the house permanent select committee on intelligence, he removed, once he removed those files, he compromised the entire communications intelligence of the west shrunk by that amount. why did he...

Edward jay epstein, great to see you. you point out that some way the snowden did of the market public a favor, but he'd went way beyond that and damaged american national security, why didn't he stop at a public part of what he did? >> i think one has to acknowledge that there's always a silver lining to every cloud that the cloud was a dark thunderstorm in terms of what happened to american intelligence because of the damage purposely and deliberately inflicted by snowden. >> tucker: it was purposeful and deliberate you demonstrate you went overnight to russia, what was his motive, exactly? ...

A silver lining to every cloud that the cloud was a dark thunderstorm in terms of what happened to american intelligence because of the damage purposely and deliberately inflicted by snowden. >> tucker: it was purposeful and deliberate you demonstrate you went overnight to russia, what was his motive, exactly? >> i don't know his motive. i'm more or less interested -- i'm more interested in his actions, why he took these documents, 1.5 alien files, accg to the house permanent select committee on intelligence he removed those files, he compromised the entire communications intelligence of the w...

China, if they were divided. if he threw them into the sea. the damage was basically the military, the pentagon had to spend a five months going through 1,500,000 files every sort, every method had to be canceled, a huge district of exercise that happened and we've suffered because of it. >> tucker: i didn't understand it from what you wrote on why the nsa would have given snowden who was not an employee, a contractor access to level three secrets, the highest level secrets. why would they have let him handle those or have access to them? >> snowden somehow learned that another contractor booz...