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Term. most school kids have ridden buses for as long as there have been school buses and it was once it became a tool for integration that we had a problem with it. kids ride buses every day. i do think it's clear that no one is willing to really do that anymore. so we do have to come up with other solutions. >> do you think part of this has to do with -- the thing that was so interesting to me in new york was what you see is in the absence of a plan to desegregate schools, in the absence of policy explicitly agitating for that, there's a million different ways that self-segregation will happe...

Busing. it's a very political term. most cool kids have ridden busses a long as there have been school buses. only when it became a tool of integration there was a problem. kids ride school buses every day. it's clear that no one is really willing to do that anymore so we have to come up with other solutions. >> do you think part of this has to do if -- the thing that was so interesting to me in new york was what you see is in the absence of a plan to desegregate schools, in the absent of policy agitating for that, there's a million different ways that self-segregation will happen, will happen...

Segregation in the south. there's still a black belt. i can look at voting precincts. county by county. i know exactly where the democratic vote is. it's african-american precincts. there's still this feeling, there's still a form of segregation that has been i guess sub segregation. >> yes, there's a lot of subsegregation, particularly in the south, and in addition to self-segregation, we know the south is mainly red states. what we're mainly seeing in the south, but quite frankly all over the country, i think the largest impediment we'll see in the future to seeing more african-americans in ...

Distribution the way people have to live in this country. if you come from a tough, cranky, conservative neighborhood, you get out of there go to atlanta, washington, miami, new york. therefore, you have different attitudes in big cities. i wonder if parents are less likely to come forth and say, my son's gay, living in new york or san francisco, therefore i'm for gay marriage. rather than saying, my son is gone now. is it different where you live? >> self-segregation where people who want to be out to go metropolitan areas and so, therefore, do attitudes change in a less rapid pace in, for in...

Cities where it's more open, where there's more openness to their orientation. other gay people. there's a very unequal distribution the way people have to live in this country. if you come from a tough, cranktcrank ky, conservative neighborhood, you get out of there go to atlanta, washington, miami, new york. therefore, you have different attitudes in big cities. i wonder if parents areless likely to come forth and say, my son's gay, living in new york or san francisco, therefore i'm for gay marriage. rather than saying, my son is gone now. is it different where you live? >> self-segregation ...