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Positions hng at this point at least bas on what we know. >> we're not even talking abo norms. we're just talking about the basic rule of law. there is an incredible disrespect for the rule of law by this administration. we've got the president committing obstruction of justice. you've got the attorney general lying before congress. that's perjury. you've got jared kushner omitting deliberately information on his security clearance form. that's making a false official statement, also a felony. so we are seeing something that we haven't seen before, which is not just breaking norms. it's people...

Maintains that was an omission on his part, essentially not intentional deception. he had not thought of it in the context of the question. jared kushner doesn't really have a particularly coherent story about why he put that on the sf-86. but where is the accountability here?

Falsifications were deliberate. these were meetings that were significant. one was with a back channel with russia that was being discussed. another was with a head of a russian bank under u.s. sanctions. you don't forget about these meetings a few weeks before you fill out your security clearance form. and when he omitted those meetings, that's a felony. i filled out these sf-86 security forms before. right on the form, it says if you deliberately omit this information, you're liable to face imprisonment. >> i just want to be clear here. you believe that the president's son-in-law and one his...

>> you can argue they're both withholding information. from a legal perspective if it was determined that someone or anyone involved withheld something they knew to be true in sworn testimony, that becomes a bigger deal because then you're talking about perjury. >> i mean on the forms. >> oh, well then there's a separate issue beyond sworn testimony on your sf-86 which is your security clearance form. cnn had some reporting last week about sessions not being fully forthcoming on the form. there have been questions about jared kushner listing russia meetings, et cetera. that's a different viola...

Questions and the question then is, what is the political benefit of that? you can make an argument that best strategy would be to be forthcoming fast and quick and fully so that you can get the investigations out of the way as quickly as possible. so they can come to a conclusion about these open questions. >> jim, if i can just jump in here, because even -- let's just say there was an omission, an omission and lying about it, they're equally the same. it's not that, oh, i forgot about it. those carry the same consequences. >> well, lying about it, ifimon >> lying by admission -- >> -- would ...