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Is trap them in perjury. we're not suckers. the whole information is totally legitima legitimate. he believes if he gets the chance to explain it, people will understand no collusion with the russians, no obstruction of justice. they have to just come to grips with the fact they are investigating an innocent man. and you can do that forever because you're never going to find any evidence. somebody has to put an end to this. he did not collude. there's no evidence he colluded. but in the alternative, collusion is not a crime. when you tell me that he should testify because he's going to tell th...

And xenophobia to motivate baseless allegations and generate fear. sound familiar? not to mention, do you know who mccarthy's lawyer was? roy cohn. you know whose personal lawyer he became? donald trump's. now, some more proof. just listen to how desperate the efforts are. it reminds me of groucho marx. who are you going to believe, me or your lyin' eyes? listen to trump attorney rudy giuliani this weekend on "meet the press." >> i'm not going to be rushed into having him testify so that he gets trapped into perjury. when you tell me he should testify because he's going to tell the truth and h...

So to speak, so i think there's a political imperative to say it is a witch hunt, no good to degrade the people running it, because obviously you want the political upper hand. at the end of the day, however, this case moves forward without him saying anything, and what he is saying now gives him the political cover by convincing all the people that love him, there are many, all of the followers he has, there are many, to say it is simply a witch hunt. why bother taking to them. the political issue of the president not speaking because the truth is the truth falls by the wayside. >> let me pla...

Sit down with the special counsel for interview, saying quote, even if i'm telling the truth, that makes me a liar. this comes after his attorney, rudy guiliani, said this on "meet the press." >> when you tell me that, you know, he should testify because he's going to tell the truth and he shouldn't worry, that's silly because it is somebody's version of the truth, not the truth. he didn't have a conversation -- >> truth is truth. i don't mean to go -- >> no, it isn't truth. truth isn't truth. >> hmm. outfront, mark lauder, special assistant to trump, and former national press secretary. nice ...

Dealings with russia and would be very useful to your father. this is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of russia and its government support for mr. trump. giuliani took issue with the notion of objective truths. >> when you tell me that, you know, he should testify because he's going to tell the truth and he shouldn't worry, that's so silly because it's somebody's version of the truth. not the truth. he didn't have a conversation -- >> truth is truth. i don't mean to go like -- >> no, it isn't truth. truth isn't truth. >> reporter: giuliani's stunning words that ...