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Numbers or relatively small numbers, to try and disarm the force. this incredible desire to not have boots on the ground. that we wanted to change the regime with air strikes and coordination. but the idea of having even a small number of boots on the ground was such a red line that no force went in to try and collect these weapons to establish a post-collapse of gadhafi system. and we're still living in -- we're still paying for the results of that. >> richard engel, thank you so much. thanks for being with us today. and coming up next, we will dive into the politics of the government shutd...