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People that also aren't taking vaccines and also believe that donald trump won the election, they'll say, what do you think about the russian hoax. i say, listen, i'm not going to do your work for you. all you have to do the read the mueller report. i'm not exactly sure where mueller didn't tie that thing up better than he did. it was really a disaster in presentation. but if you read -- everybody was talking about the ten obstruction of justice articles. if you really read that report, the really scary part for american democracy was the part on russia. if you read it and you aren't completel...

He called a jihad prevention act, which was lunacy, which meant it was to bar immigrants from bringing sharia law into this country, something that wasn't happening. and eventually he expanded that to the point where he said i'm not going to participate in a debate in which people are broadcasting in spanish. there was this drift over time in which you saw one form of legitimate fear give way to this much broader permission to be xenophobic more broadly and you get an artifact like donald trump who is the product of that. >> mike barnicle has a question for you, evan. >> evan, i want to talk a...

Tangental, again, this is mueller sending a message, you better tell the truth when we talk to you because it doesn't matter how important your evidence is, you have to be on the up and up or we're coming for you. this is a young lawyer. his wife is pregnant. she's based in the uk. his sentencing today, he's like, judge, give me a break. now we have a new element in those cases, the judge, because in addition to mueller, you know who else doesn't like people lying? judges. >> judges. >> so this judge said, mueller actually didn't even recommend jail time. they were silent on the that. >> is is...