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Previously assisted in his lobbying efforts for ukrainian politicians. he called and texted one of the people encrypted messages. the text said we should talk. i have made clear that they worked in europe. do you think that this means that mueller's team habeen able to decipher encrypted messages? or the recipient of the text shared them? >> i would go with the latter. what i think is so illustrative of this moment is this is human that fort's business and operations must have been running for years and to think he wouldn't stop this after all that's happened and after all the people that's co...

Is to be declared maybe as a known agent of russia, and having his side kick gates also go ahead and start to work with the special counsel. it's just stunning he continue t take these actions, he would continue to mess alk in this way. when he's been met at every single challenge. i think the important thing to note here is every time we've seen an increase in the president talking about maybe i can pardon myself or maybe'll just close down the investigation, we see an increase in pressure on people all the way around him. and it's not surprising to me that we see this pop-up here today with ...

Manafort because he could get out of going to jail for a long time because they have a good case against him based on documentation and receipts and wire transfers. >> and e-mail. >> and it doesn't depend on testimony of people. what if manafort doesn't know enough? in other words do you think mueller knows that manafort knows a lot because if he doesn't have something to trade off, he is in big trouble. >> yeah. but if manafort didn't know anything, he would make it very clear. but i think that -- for example, take this beating -- >> this june 9th meeting. >> at the trump tower. everybody sai...