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Again for probation violations that are very small. this seems to be sort of the crux of what really hurts a lot of people in america at this moment, when you have monsters live harvey weinstein and kicev spacey walking the streets currently uncharged while meek mill who is not a danger to society is in prison. that doesn't make any sense. jay-z's trying to point out why the criminal justice system is not work for a lot of people. and i welcome that. one of the things a lot of people criticize colin kaepernick on is that he couldn't fully articulate everything around the criminal justice issue...

Agreement but what america has done. >> if you make a deal, you can act as an example, a leader to other countries that would say why should we come along and do anything especially if you are a third world country that aspires to be on par with the american economy or even china? and then you say oh, no, we are making a sacrifice -- what a great nation is willing to do in order to serve its people. >> steve: i honestly think the president, who is incredibly crowd of america, this whole discussion has gotten down to a slogan level. >> let me to say, john mccain. patriot. good guy. >> steve: i ...

Agreement but what america has done. >> if you make a deal, you can act as an example, a leader, to other countries that say, why should we come along and why should we do anything, especially if you are a third world country that aspires to be on par with the american economy or even a china and you say, oh, no, we're making a sacrifice to give you an example of what's possible. what a great nation is willing to do to serve its people. >> steve: i think that the president, who is proud of america, would agree with what you have said and this discussion is in a slogan level that doesn't reflec...

>> right. >> medicaid, social security, defense spending, the obama team talks a little bit about cutting back defense spending but not in a significant way. not in a post -- i guess we're now in the post-post-war era. not in a way that really fits our times. nobody's talking seriously about this. >> cutting defense spending maybe 8%, and still leaves us at a fairly high level. you're right. the debate about the economy still hasn't gotten serious. it's still at the political level, the slogan level, rather than at the policy level. >> there are a lot of ideologues, mika, that watch this show ...