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Eastman was also culpable and the email which lays out a blueprint for an unconstitutional attempt to overturn the election heading over to the january 6 committee. joining me now to discuss, "new york times" maggie haberman and cnn plus' kasie hunt. maggie, let me start with you. judge carter went on to say, quote, the illegality of the plan was obvious. trump has already avoided full impeachment and removal twice. how big a deal is this actually? >> it's a big deal and it isn't quite what it looks like, jake. it's not an indictment. this is not coming from the justice department but this is ...

Of risk and being up there is somebody making a fix to a window on a very tall building or something like that. how is it different? what are the forces working on your body and what are the things you have to worry about? >> i wouldn't actually make that comparison. the reason why i wouldn't make that comparison is because you must have the opportunity to get some extra equipment from somewhere. >> ah. >> this is a case where the environment is very hostile. and you have to have planned ahead, years before. so, for example, what you're seeing right now are a real team effort, where individual...