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Of october from the president to particularly holdouts in his own party, let's get what we can done now, and i know there might be frustration among progressives about not doing enough, but if we can show that what we're doing is benefiting the american people, we'll be able to do more in the future. we'll see what happens when congress comes back next week with precious little time to get this over the finish line. >> sahil, knowing it won't be 3.5 trillion, where do things stand with democrats? kyrsten sinema has been in europe, fundraising. people like bernie sanders want to see expanded me...

They need all 50 votes. >> are they closer than they were two weeks ago, yes. but democrats are not where they want to be at this moment. president biden is trying to resolve this by identifying a sweet spot of 1.9 trillion to 2.2 trillion in terms of the overall spending level. but the rival factions of the party are the no moving yet. joe manchin, the west virginia senator is not moving up from his $1.5 trillion ask, and senator bernie sanders is not moving down from his $3.5 trillion ask. that suggests that they're both still jockeying for leverage. in terms of policy, the party has difficu...

Needle here? >> i think you and gary are talking about two different things, right? gary's talking about the concern of the long-term debt accumulation in the country, a concern i very much share with gary, and you're referring to the short-term concerns about are they going to get through the debt ceiling issue. i honestly believe, neil, that's a concern only for the media and for the politicos that get away with making extreme statements. nobody in america really believes they're going to default on the debt -- neil: by the way, nobody in america, to your point, maybe this is a reflection of...

Already another spending bill. what do i do with that? that is not going to cost you anything because i'm going to tax you later. it is a pyramid scheme. but maybe that is what it always has been and i was naïve not to see it. >> you are not naïve, grade. >> greg: thanks. >> you are better than that. to greg up office naïve point you are establishing these trillion dollars programs and you will need to be reported. and now the new spending level is multitrillion-dollar's each year. >> do you remember it went that stem this passed back in 2008 and we were all, like, oh, my gosh. this is insa...

So the highway bill would extend that -- or the infrastructure bill would extend that. i will just say, though, that there's just so much things that remain undecided in this reconciliation package. pelosi has said she will not put a bill on the floor that would not pass the senate, so it has to have the spending level somewhere between 3.5, we assume between 1.5 or 2.8 or something in that range. also we don't know about taxes, we don't know about programs, we don't know most importantly -- >> okay. >> -- hold on, what joe manchin and kyrsten sinema want, that's the main thing. go ahead. >> i...