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Bill: it was 2000-2001 when we ran a surplus, ten, 11 years ago, right? >> yes. and since 1969 we have seen the federal government run a surplus, only for four years. bill: okay. now, $14.3 trillion, today. i don't know how old you are but i know how old i am and i'm not quite sure in my lifetime i've seen it in positive territory. do you? >> i'm not expecting to see us get the deficit down quickly but we do have to stabilize it and have to start to see the debt, decline, relative to the size of our economy. and, we need reforms in the big spending programs, and pro-growth tax policies and so ...

Program. but we didn't pay for any of this new spending. >> democrats may have lost their way, but conservative republicans never did. >> you know, we can lecture our children about extravagance until we run out of voice and breath or we can cure their extravagance by simply reducing their allowance. >> if you're a conservative republican you can reduce the government's allowance by cutting taxes, and then sit by and try to watch the democrats preserve their spending programs when they don't have the money to do it. the democrats then joined the republicans in cutting spending. starve the beas...

Expensive prescription drug program. but we didn't pay for any of this new çspending. >> democrats may have lost their way, but conservative republicans never did. >> you know, we can lecture our children about ex-trav against until we run out of voice and breath or we can cure their extravagance by simply reducing their allowance. >> if you're a conservative republican you can reduce the government's allowance by cutting taxes, and then sit by and try to watch the democrats preserve their spending programs when they don't have the money to do it. the democrats then joined the republicans in...

>> well, democrats may have lost their way, but conservative republicans never did. >> you know, we can lecture our children about extravagance until we run out of voice and breath, or we can cure their extravagance by simply reducing their allowance. >> reducing their allowance. if you're a conservative republican you can reduce the government's allowance by cutting taxes, and then sit by and try to watch the democrats preserve their spending programs when they don't have the money to do it. the democrats then joined the republicans in cutting spending. starve the beast was the phrase thrown ...

>> the problem with a bunch of tax increases, the president just raised taxes $800 billion, calling for a new $1.5 trillion in tax increases, you slow down economic growth. >> howard dean is the former governor of vermont and the former chairman of the democratic national committee. it seems here, howard, that on both sides of the aisle there is real concern about rising deficits, our national debt, and what to do, and real disagreement on how to go about tackling the fiscal crisis ahead of us. do you see any indication that these two parties are going to be able to work together and figure th...