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About the debt ceiling in a separate discussion about ways to control spending. what do you think about that when you hear that, that they kind of want to separate those two? >> whichever way they want to talk about it, i'm very clear. we will not pass a clean debt ceiling here without some form of spending reform. so there'll never be a clean one. at the end of the day, we're going to get spending reforms. i believe you have to lift the debt ceiling. but you do not lift the debt ceiling without changing your behavior. so it's got to be both. yes, sir? >> some of your own members have voted fo...

Negotiator. >> republican hardliners demand budget cuts. >> if he wants to take it to the brink then the fault and blame lies on the president. >> any debt ceiling has to increase cuts and the idea that the sky is falling is really just an empty threat. >> you don't just get the ability to expand the credit cards without having the necessary spending reforms. >> this is a revival of a tactic in the obama administration with to be fair nearly disastrous consequences for the nation. do you think that the white house can continue to say no negotiations period, the end? >> i would say ask again in...

Legislation, has spent the money, spending the money, why not take care of it and have a conversation that most americans would agree is necessary? >>ed reason you don't separate the two, the only reason you're hitting the debt ceiling this fast is because of the reckless spending. so if you increase the allotment, you should address your spending habits. my career was 17 years in the financial industry. my first stop was as an anchor and decide we were going to lend money to small businesses. you don't just get the ability to expand the credit card without the necessary spending reforms. if y...

In the majority in 2025. >> this has been a victory for the 20 holdouts. it's been a victory for the house freedom caucus, for those who are probably more on the extremes, no? >> yeah, and i think some of the things being discussed open votes on the floor, going out for an amendment. most americans look at that and say what's wrong with that? what's wrong with having 72 hours to look at a bill, what's wrong with these spending reforms? i don't think they're all that radical. now, placing and changing committee ratios, making sure there's certain house freedom caucus people, three freedom caucu...

Vote? >> you know, i'm quite disappointed with the agreement that came out of the senate. in recent history any kind of debt limit increase has always had some kind of spending reforms. this bill does not. i will be voting no on it, i will be encouraging my colleagues in the house voting no on it. we have a -- right now. before we allow an increase in the debt limit, we need to have spending reform. the last thing we needed to do is to give a larger runway for democrats to continue to spend trillions of dollars of working class tax dollars. griff: congressman, you allude to minority leader mit...