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Level? how do you try to make the biggest amount of noise you can possibly make? that might involve a couple, some -- i don't know, some number of hearings with key witnesses who have been kept in the dark what you can really then make a point with. but it's going to also involve a much more complicated media strategy because honestly no diplomat to some of these impeachment hearings, the country is not watching cable all day long at 2:00 in the afternoon, and 3:00 in the afternoon. >> they are not? >> at 4:00 they are all watching you. which is why i would suggest primetime starts at 4:00. bu...

Democracy, for every democracy. with it, anything is possible. without it, virtually nothing is possible. we have to come together and get it done. and we will. >> we are back with melissa murray, dan hilemon, dan goldman. melissa, that was i think the second speech the president has given about voting rights and democracy. does it, in your view, signal a turn of his folk to us think? what did you hear today? >> that address may have been given on an international stage but i think it was likely directed to his colleagues across the street in the capitol where we have major voting rights legis...

>> but they didn't. >> right. so, what -- >> and what would have happened if they had gone along with it? what would have happened if the department of justice had been mobilized? what would have happened if mike pence said, yes, sir, i'm not going to count those electoral votes. we've seen what the attempt looks like. we haven't seen what happens if there's no one to say "no" to the trumpists. >> you know, a.b., we spend a lot of time talking about liz cheney in the last hour and her seek and destroy mission to if not eradicate trumpism and the anti-democratic impulses from the republican par...

Jurisdictional questions, whether these lawsuits should be in court. the court said it was dismissing it. that's off the table. then it turned to the suit brought by if abortion providers against various state court officials, uj js, clerk, as well as licensing officials in the state and the leader of a texas right to life group. the court held that the state court judges and clerks were in proper defend ants and allowed the suit to proceed against the licensing officials. here's the rub. that's not really a victory. by allowing the suit to go forward against the licensing officials the court ...

The state legislature. i think ron johnson thinks that he's got a good chance to be re-elected, so it really is going to come down to the governorship in wisconsin because right now, the governor is really the only thing standing between absolutely unified control of government, not just by a republican party but by a republican party that will not stand up against any of this trumpist disinformation and an election tampering. >> and the whole thing, charlie, is the allure of the lie, because you're saying that even people who know it's a lie take it in and they can't break up with it, is that...