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And any kind of subscription model is very hard to do when a lot of people who use bbc services — particularly older people — don't have reliable broadband. yeah, i mean, i'd like to bring in phil riley here, chief executive of boom radio. you know, you've built up radio stations, you know commercial radio really well. let's take nadine dorries at face value. you know, if this is the last licence fee to be announced, as she's suggesting, how could the bbc be funded? helen was touching on a couple of options, but what are the options, do you think? i think helen hit the nail on the head, re...

Actually, the period i looked at it was when i was supporting the dcms select committee as a specialist adviser during their inquiry into the wider public service broadcasting landscape. and, of course, they did havejohn whittingdale in front of them at that time answering questions. and i think that... i mean, i went into that inquiry thinking, yes, why doesn't the bbc have the courage of its convictions around some of its great content? why don't they ask people to pay for it? and they could end up maybe making more money out of that than they do from the licence fee. but what i learned — ...

Do you think? i think helen hit the nail on the head, really. i don't think there is really anotherfunding model that works for anything like the scale of bbc that we have today. subscription is an interesting idea, but it falls very badly when you consider that 18 million households in the uk access their television via freeview. freeview — it's impossible to put subscription on freeview, it hasn't got conditional access, so there's 18 million people — if you take the bbc off them, the freeview model falls over. the bbc, if it were to go down the subscription route, simply can't have bbc ...

And they could end up maybe making more money out of that than they do from the licence fee. but what i learned — as you've heard from helen and from phil — is that we don't have the infrastructure that would allow that to happen. a key tenet of the bbc has to be universality. and if, ultimately, you went down a subscription route, you would end up disenfranchising or cutting people off from bbc content at the most vulnerable fringes of our society — so people who are geographically remote, or perhaps don't have the money or the inclination to get onto high—speed broadband — and that...

Select committee as a specialist adviser, during their inquiry into the wider public service broadcasting landscape. and, of course, they did have john whittingdale in front of them at that time, answering questions. and i think that... i mean, iwent into that inquiry thinking, "yes, why doesn't the bbc have the courage of its convictions around some of its great content?" "why don't they ask people to pay for it?" and they could end up maybe making more money out of that than they do from the licence fee? but what i learned, as you've heard from from helen and from phil, is that we don't have...