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Than japan is. japan was dependent on the united states for strategic survival. it lived within america's security umbrella. china does not. so describe, you know, what lessons can we learn from those getting tough on japan strategies and what does it tell us about getting tough with china? >> i think you want to strike a delicate balance between on the one hand getting tough to address what steve and you and i have said nontariff barriers that really should come down. on the other hand, you want to maintain the rule-based trading system. but the reality is that the u.s. is better placed to wi...

Better place. so while it may inflict damage on itself in the process, ultimately it will win a tariff race, it will win a trade war and the hope is that other countries, china in particular, realize this and they try to deescalate. that they are behind closed doors discussions to deescalate this. >> steve, let me ask you how this ends because one of the theories that people have and you alluded to it is that right now the markets are not -- are pretty sanguine, chinese markets have gone down but u.s. markets have not so much. at some point that that will happen. that the ceos whom trump liste...