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no one is speaking publicly about it, but i have been in touch with some democrats on the hill who are still very upset this evening after that meeting. the bottom line is they have heard these outlines of a possible framework of a deal. and some democrats are concerned that this is a, happening too late, and b, that it's possible the white house is agreeing to a deal that will essentially jam the democrats into agreeing to something that does not go far enough on the issues that they care about, and they'll ultimately be in a position of either voting to agree with their president a...

Policy chairman and economic advise and now co-chair of tim pawlenty's political action committee so we can talk about that. we have a lot to talk about. i want to ask you about the tax side. the president is going to try to approach this from both taxes and spending cuts. but you had today on "morning joe," the -- grover nor quist saying he's got 235 people in the house signing this no tax pledge. does that put taxes off the table completely? >> no. but it makes it very, very difficult. i have known grover for 25 years and he has built a whole movement around the country around the anti-tax m...

He doesn't say it in the minds of my own people. and he is beginning to be not believable to me. >> believable or not, the president admits his oil and gas, nuclear and coal talk is a way to win over senate republicans as he tries to salvage his floundering senate legislation. >> there should be a bipartisan agreement that we have to take a both end approach rather than either or approach. >> so, how is that working out? >> we don't need to attach expanding america's energy supply to this cap and trade scheme that the president keeps pushing back to. >> cap and trade, of course, refers to the ...

He doesn't say it in the minds of my own people. and he is beginning to be not believable to me. >> believable or not, the president admits his oil and gas, nuclear and coal talk is a way to win over senate republicans as he tries to salvage his floundering senate legislation. >> there should be a bipartisan agreement that we have to take a both end approach rather than either or approach. >> so, how is that working out? >> we don't need to attach expanding america's energy supply to this cap and trade scheme that the president keeps pushing back to. >> cap and trade, of course, refers to the ...

Creators, as they like to call them. to have more confidence to hire new workers. now, he will talk about ideas which is closing the loopholes, which would be removing some of the ways people can deduct things from their taxes. but not increasing rates. so that's really kind of the new formulation that republicans have for trying to put some kind of a tax component in this. but anything that looks like stimulus, chuck, republicans are saying they don't believe it will work. not just opposition to the president but a belief that it just won't work. >> all right. kelly o'donnell on capitol hill....