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Before, the seriousness has sunk in to the president and those around him he needs outside counsel and begin to make credible remarks. this defense so far try to normalize misbehavior, exactly the wrong strategy. >> peter, the fact ambassador sondland didn't text back, right? talked about the texts. didn't text back five hours and found out part of that gap in time picks up the phone and calls the president. what do you think of that? >> i moean, his text means it's something certainly crafted by the cia. the ambassador is giving the most plausible reading what happened. 's remember the contex...

Then i think the next thing to watch here is that the white house is really kind of struggling with the strategy, right? the president has been asked a couple times if he was going to -- over the last few days if he was going to participate in this impeachment strategy, and he keeps saying, i don't know, i don't know, it's up to the lawyers, punting it to the lawyers. then at the late decision last night around 12:30 to block sondland is an indication this is sort of a -- they're piecemeepiece d piecemealing it as they go here. >> unless they're much more transparent, you could be led to belie...

Subpoenas, that's kind of like pleading the fifth. they are doing everything they cannot to testify, not to be subject to cross-examination. not to have to testify to the american people and their representatives. that's indices of guilt. and overall, you can use that i think, to show guilt, and that can come forth in an impeachment hearing. >> okay. in the same category you might say adam schiff revealing this morning that there are text messages and emails on a private device of ambassador sondland that the state department has and is withholding. i wonder how central you think those texts a...

We will nail down date for visit to washington. good luck. see you tomorrow. by now thanks to the first whistle blower complaint and a rough transcript of trump's ukraine call we now know that on that call trump pressed zelensky to launch -- everyone involved in this text messages only one career ambassador bill taylor pushed back texting on september 1st quote, are we now saying that security assistance and white house meeting are conditioned on investigations? to which gordon text back, call me. taylor then pushes back again on september 9th texting quote, as i said on the phone, i think it'...

He points to this exchange that is one of the text messages on september 9th from bill taylor, the acting u.s. ambassador in ukraine to gordon sondland, the u.s. ambassador to the european union. this is bill taylor. as i said on the phone, i think it is crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign. sondland text back, bill, i believe you are incorrect about president trump's intentions, the president has been crystal clear, no quid pro quos of any kind. >> and we should know there was a great deal of time that lapsed between those two things. first of all, the conv...