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>> bill carter is the author of "the late shift." >> he doesn't want to be in the mix of, this is my point of view and i'm pounding away at the president. he knows it's not his strength. he doesn't want to do it. >> i hope they're going to understand -- >> just months before the election, jimmy fallon was vilified for being too soft on trump. his ratings suffered. >> yes! >> was interviewing trump and playing with him a big deal? was that actually a big deal? >> giovanni russonello is a culture reporter for "the new york times." >> i think he's acknowledged since then that, yes, it was a huge ...

I have something to say here. donald trump, if you're watching, first of all, you're a bad president. please resign. second of all -- [ cheers and applause ] >> in the trump era, the "late show's" stephen colbert's satirical voice cracked the code. but colbert's method of madness is in sharp contrast to what not long ago was a winning formula on nbc's "the tonight show". >> wow. i look fantastic. >> the thing about jimmy is he does an impression of trump, a very good impression of trump. >> all right, me, we've got a big interview with jimmy fallon coming up. but let's be honest, fallon's a li...

Bill carter is the author of "the late shift." >> he doesn't want to be in the mix of, this is my point of view and i'm pounding away at the president. he knows it's not his strength. he doesn't want to do it. >> i hope they're going to understand. >> just months before the election, jimmy fallon was vilified for being too soft on trump. his ratings suffered. >> yes! >> was interviewing trump and playing with him a big deal? was it actually a big deal? >> i think he's acknowledged since then, that, yes, it was a huge deal and he was surprised by the kind of blowback that he got, but he has to ...

Burger king. do you think he's capable of being a brilliant comic and -- >> i do think he's capable. i've seen him. the guy is one of the great comedians. >> but you think he's dumbed down his material? >> yeah, i think that's fair to say. >> but leno's controversy goes far beyond his humor. some of the more infamous stories began when he and critical darling david letterman competed to replace the legendary johnny carson. >> you think they can just flip a coin? >> it became legendary, as captured in the bestselling book called "the late shift" made in a 1986 hbo movie which featured this betr...

Bill carter is the national media reporter for the "new york times" and author of the 1994 letterman/leno book, "the late shift" which turned out to be only the beginning. he's good enough to join us from burbank. good evening, bill. >> good to be with you, keith. >> was this just a good joke as leno put it? or some sort of peace offering by letterman? put this in context. >> i think certainly from dave's point of view, it started as a joke. he liked the idea. i think when they got together, probably there was a little rapprochement in the air, and they got along. it was a good scene. i mean, ...