Brought it up at the september 1st meeting with vice president pence that you were at, right? >> i don't know if he brought it up specifically, but asked where the aid was, i think was more -- i think again very vague recollection because i don't have a readout of the bilateral meeting. but why don't i have my check, essentially. >> and you -- you understood the ukrainians received no credible explanation, is that right? >> i certainly didn't -- couldn't give them one. >> so is this kind of a two plus two equals four conclusion that you reached? >> pretty much. >> it's the only logical conclus...