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as an excuse to build new coal mines. he was speaking at a un climate change summit where delegates are seeking ways of reducing carbon dioxide emissions. now on bbc news, it's hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. much of the world is now transitioning from locking down to living with covid—19, and that means that, in cities like london, cultural life is returning, performers are back on stage, audiences can gather to enjoy them. my guest today is the world—renowned hungarian conductor and composer, ivan fischer, known for his innovative style. it has been a tough c...

world—renowned hungarian conductor and composer ivan fischer, known for his innovative style. it has been a tough couple of years, so how easy is it to find the magic in music—making? ivan fischer, welcome to hardtalk. lovely to be here. it's great to have you here in london. let me ask you, how different has it been making music in the time of covid? covid had positive and negative effects on our life. the problem was that there is no audience and actually we make music for people. this is actually easy for musicians to forget. some musicians make music to impress other musician...

Up from the hall. maybe it's next to you there is a tenor, or here's a soprano and theyjump up. and then people had the feeling, "it's us, it's we, the people, who start to sing." and for me, it was a revelation much, much more than in the conventional ritual. that story sums up a lot of what you try to do, because it seems you're trying to find a route back to the fun, to the playfulness. i mean, musicians play music, you want them to be playful in a very literal sense. i think music itself is playful, i agree completely. we use this wonderful word, "play" for making music. it's great, isn't ...

The original composition. so, i try to find ways to give a possibility for the unpredictable nature of music. so, what i did in beethoven's ninth symphony, i hid the chorus in the audiences. nobody saw the choir, "where are they?" and suddenly theyjumped up from the hall. maybe it's next to you there is a tenor, or here's a soprano and theyjump up. and then people had the feeling, "it's us, it's we, the people, who start to sing." and for me, it was a revelation much, much more than in the conventional ritual. that that story sums up a lot of what you try to do, because it seems you you're try...

A symphony, it's a great surprise, because we have three movements with an orchestra playing, in the last movement people start to sing. it's a revolution. now, in our normal ritual, it's not a revolution, because what do you see? you see an orchestra and you see a chorus waiting there for their entry. where is the unpredictability? where is the surprise? so, i think sometimes the ritual doesn't fit the original composition. so, i try to find ways to give a possibility for the unpredictable nature of music. so, what i did in beethoven's ninth symphony, i hid the chorus in the audiences. nobody...