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Of justice be a bigger issue facing donald trump? >> obstruction of justice might be a lot easier to prove, based on what is publicly known, the firing of james comey, the failure to fire michael flynn. the drafting or the working on the drafting of that misleading account of the june 2016 meeting with his son, his son-in-law, his campaign manager, and the russians. but there is now some evidence directly linking donald trump to collusion. we know from the guilty plea of george papadopoulos he was sitting a few feet away from donald trump when he talked about his connections with the russians,...

Meeting. but i'm just pointing out that the rest of the pieces here of the story, of saying that this is evidence of the trump campaign colluding with the russian government, where if they were involved, packed into john podesta's e-mail to obtain information. the additional pieces would be at that meeting, this russian lawyer would be providing that to help the campaign. this whole story line is missing important points. i don't want to take anything away from, you know, taking donald trump jr. at his word as to why he sat down at that table. >> the story line is not collusion, it's the facts...

>> i think it's -- this is up to viewers and voters to decide. do they trust this white house? i go back to why didn't they disclose these meetings? the interesting nugget is that jared kushner only disclosed recently this meeting. he has still not disclosed all his meetings with russian officials. it's a problem for the white house in terms of credible and makes the mueller investigation critical. the president was attacking james comey again. i think the tweets are all distraction. but if he tries to obstruct this investigation, it raises all kinds of questions. if they're innocent and there...

Of the dpan. that disproves what he said in march. our last question to you is this. should this now be part of the special counsel's investigation? do you think it's prudent at this point for robert mueller to look into this? >> you know, i would defer to mr. mueller on that one. if there is additional facts availab available, that might add a different angle, insight to that meeting. the fact that there's a theory -- and i believe that the russians meddled in the campaign. the russian government would have had information to provide. so if this person was sent there on behalf of the russian ...

Anyone is the fact that this is the first time that we know that someone within the trump campaign was willing to meet with a russian on the premise of accepting help from them. the significance? >> right. so, it's important that this occurs before there's actually public reports of russian hacking. so that makes it hard to make the case this is the first sort of proof of attempt at collusion. it violates campaign finance laws to accept an in-kind donation from a foreign national. so, if he accepted -- if he expected to get information with that kind of value that would be criminal. of course,...