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Pro-russian guy. what ended up was there was an investigation and we found out that there was a ledger with alleged payments from this pro-russian guy to paul manafort. so this came out in the public. it put a lot of pressure paul manafort. paul manafort eventually stepped down from donald trump's campaign. it was a big political deal if you remember around the time of the conventions, but when you talk to people who are analyzing both sides of this they say there are big differences here because it was not a top down effort from the ukrainians to interfere in the u.s. election like we see wit...

Has said about how we are losing this war to isis in terms of recruitment. here's what he has said. we have an effective counternarrative. but the sheer volume we are losing the battle. their amount of use of social media eclipses our effort. >> how can isis this band of 30,000 maybe, be beating the u.s. in terms of getting recruitment and people becoming radicalized here at home? >> well a good metaphor is almost thinking about this as something like microsoft versus youtube. one is a top-down effort by the u.s. government to try to monitor these social media websites. and the other is bottom...

Will get shot in the face. the right to bear arms is my constitutional god-given right and i will exercise that right until the day i die. what's in this letter is nothing compared to what i've got planned for you." so going full circle and coming back to this topic, anne, it obviously is this letter sort of reigniting at least part of the conversation, but there also was an even bigger conversation, obviously, after newtown. after you heard -- and i hope you could hear what our guest had to say, one of the many groups who are trying to get new gun legislation passed, do you think that convers...

>> let me ask you this. so if there's this large group of independents who are dissatisfied with both parties and looking for an alternative but just don't want to waste their vote, we had an experiment with that this year the americans elect organization which set up a process, put a lot of money behind it to put forward a third party candidate and it basically failed pretty spectacularly. you know, how would you explain the failure of that group and of buddy romer and other potential third-party candidates to really catch on? >> well, i think that's a good question. and i think the americans...