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Participants. animals are learning to give blood voluntarily. >> you're saying the animals are not trapped in cages all night that they can't get out of, which is what the film suggests. >> do you agree with this? this is a wonderful happy land? this is the fantasy that -- >> but van, c' mon, that footage is from decades ago at canada facility. >> and this is just about mortality. the killer whales still die at the same rate that they did in the '70s. they die from mosquitos that land on their back because they're on the the surface. one was found with a buoy in his stomach. six have died duri...

Day to make their lives better and more stimulating. >> let me reinforce this. if you look at the best modern zoos, they have evolved in the last 30 or 40 years. if you go look at the zoo of 40 years ago and you look at the best zoos of today, they're much more aware of the animals' psychologically, socially as well as physically. and they actually work on enhanced programs to keep them interested, and to keep them busy and to give them a sense of fulfillment. my sense is we are not as as far down the road with aquariums, both in design of the actual place and in thinking it through. partly be...

Is from decades ago at canada facility. >> and this is just about mortality. the killer whales still die at the same rate that they did in the '70s. they die from mosquitos that land on their back because they're on the the surface. one was found with a buoy in his stomach. six have died during a pregnancy or as a result of giving birth. so these are abhorrent. the fact they haven't been able to improve and keep the animals alive longer suggests something is wrong. >> excuse me, mr. speaker, but there are thousands of animals that wash upon our shore with

Nature. they're also happy palaces. families visit them again and again. last year in the u.s., they drew 175 million people. that's more than the combined attendance of 130 million for last year's nfl, nba, national hockey league and major league baseball games. so, tim, wouldn't you agree that we shouldn't close the nation's zoos and aquariums, though there may occasionally be specific problems? >> i think zoos can serve a great purpose and there are many animals that work well in zoos. i think the question is, should all animals be in zoos? one important distinction i want to make is we're ...

Do they do tricks for food in nature? this is not about nature. it's about torturing animals to make them do tricks for you. >> there's so many things in your statement that we could take an hour. we are the advocates for these animals. we are the ones that have relationships based on positive reenforcement. so we know these animals better than anyone else. we know how they're doing each day. now, some of the things you mentioned, when you and i were kids, people were using killer whales for target practice. no one cared about where their tuna fish came from. never mind the fact that tens of t...