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I think the problem, and the reason he's starting to go to this theme that the investigation is going to interfere with the midterms and that's not fair, is because the president is getting ready to ratchet this up even further. you have republicans on the hill threatening to impeach the deputy attorney general. you have giuliani continuing to go on tv talking about how mueller is beyond his mandate, this is unfair, and you have the president personally attacking the investigators in mueller's probe. this is, i think, going to go to a new level. >> i think it's therapeutic in some respects for...

Attorney joe jackson and criminal defen criminal -- to help put an end to the russia proper, but now we have him creating all this confusion around the stormy daniels payment. so what does this say to you about trump's legal strategy if at all, so what do you see happening from here now that all that's out there? >> it's perplexing, it's confusing, it's disorienting, it's chaotic, we serve as advocates for our client, we have the rollout of giuliani and he comes out on tv talking about three cardinal sins he commits, number one he contradicts the president with regard to his knowledge of the p...

That has no impact whatsoever on what she's doing in the white house. >> that's a very succinct thought, but what's wrong with answering it just like that? >> there is something about republicans that have different views from donald trump, ask she appears to know one of them quite well. that's a pretty legitimate discussion to have. especially since george conaway is a long-time lawyer in the republican party, very smart lawyer. he famously wrote a successful appeal to the supreme court that was instrumental in the paula jones case -- >> and wasn't he in consideration, at least, for the posit...

This was an effort -- i'm sorry -- stormy daniels' attorney michael avenatti went away feeling victorious because michael cohen has been trying to delay this case for 90 days and he didn't get what he requested from the court. and now he's got to sign the declaration saying he believes if he makes any statement in this case he could incriminate himself. basically as trump has always said if you take the fifth amendment, you're probably guilty of something. >> legally you cannot just say that i'm going to take the fifth. you have to actually do it. you have to do it in some proceeding and with ...

You have to do things. i mean this is not -- i know we're on tv talking about it but it's almost as if somebody is watching some bad law and order episode. >> it is, thank you. >> the caliber of lawyering never ceases to amaze me in this. >> but you know why, mark. no one wants to file a public declaration saying if they make a statement in a federal case they could be subject to criminal prosecution. >> areva, there was a moment today apparently as has been reported where the lawyer for cohen said i think in response to a judge's question about being under criminal investigation or being immi...